Author Topic: Blending WMO with WVO Incompatibility  (Read 4308 times)

Jhanananda

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Blending WMO with WVO Incompatibility
« on: January 02, 2012, 08:32:09 PM »
Blending WMO with WVO Incompatibility
Black diesel and waste vegetable oil make glue in your fuel system
http://youtu.be/AaGQU3w5jfQ
I have run various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline since Feb, 2007 in a 1983 Chevy G-20 van with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP. I have started the engine with no difficulty on an 80/20 (WVO/gas) blend down to 3F (-16c).  I now run 60/20/20 (WVO/diesel/gas)

Jhanananda

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Re: Blending WMO with WVO Incompatibility
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2013, 02:32:13 PM »
Quote from: Clay Henry;881290
12-05-2008, 03:21 PM
But vegi and motor oil not a good combination.
Quote from: Nightcrawler;1111275
OK here are pictures. I just went out & mixed about 50 50 wmo & wvo both have been filtered through a jay cloth (not sure if you guys call it that but you see what I mean).

The pic on the left is wmo floating on water. I'm not totaly sure why I did that, I just wanted to see what would happen other than sit on top.

This is the wmo

This is the wvo. I was going to pour some into a jar, but we all know what that looks like.

This is just after I poured the wvo into the wmo

The bits you see are not dirt in the mix. It is air bubles that reflected the light from the flash

I then gave it a stir

Looks ok so far

I'm going to leave it for a week & I'll post the pics & result.
Quote from: Nightcrawler;1113922
:By the way had a look at the wmo/wvo mix & it looks the same as yesturday. It hasn't seperated or anything.
Quote from: Nightcrawler;1131070
Ok I heated the wmo/wvo mix yesturday. Here are the pictures & results.
I heated it untill it was in my opinion hotter than it would be in a heated tank or through a heat exchanger of any kind. It thined out real good. It never seperated or turned into anything other than what it was when I started.


Starting to warm up

Thined out real good


Yea baby, now we're cooking


Turned off the heat & starting to cool a little

Still hot, but looks the same as before I heated it, Just alot thiner.

It is still the same now as it was in the begining. So I don't know what you guys think, but I feel after this that it is ok to mix wmo & wvo. The only thing I havent done is mix a higher % of either. Maybe if you had say 90% wvo & 10% wmo it would be a different result, but I doubt it somehow.
I take onboard the oil pan that Clay showed us ,but I'm not sure how that mayo was achieved. I mean I have mixed the wmo & wvo & heated it & you can see the result. If anybody has some ideas let me know & I'll try something else. Looks ok to me though:thumb:
Quote from: Clay Henry;1111422
here is what it will look like after a little while.
This is the inside of an oil pan after the crank case got WVO in it.

If he added gasoline to his WMO and WVO blend, then let that settle out for a few days, then poured off the liquid on top, then he may have noticed a thick layer of sludge on the bottom of his jar; however, not all WMO will react negatively when blended with WVO.  The WMO has to be heavily burned first.
http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/bio-diesel-alternative-fuels-supplements/68753-wmo-filtration-set-up-5.html
I have run various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline since Feb, 2007 in a 1983 Chevy G-20 van with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP. I have started the engine with no difficulty on an 80/20 (WVO/gas) blend down to 3F (-16c).  I now run 60/20/20 (WVO/diesel/gas)

Corpsie

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Re: Blending WMO with WVO Incompatibility
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2013, 05:15:31 PM »
Nightcrawler's outcome is quite different than that which has happened to everyone else.  It's very unfortunate that he didn't pour the WVO into a jar and possible expose  some sort of visual difference.

Jhanananda

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Re: Blending WMO with WVO Incompatibility
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2013, 05:50:13 AM »
Thanks for posting a response, Corpsie, there are a number of things that are interesting with this thread.  First of all. as early as 12-05-2008, 03:21 PM someone recognized and posted on a forum that WMO and WVO can cause a blending disaster.  I wish I had run into this post then, because it would have saved me a few years of headaches trying to work my way through the problem.

There are a number of unfortunate aspects of Nightcrawler experiment.  If he had blended gasoline with the WMO and WVO at about 20%, then left it to settle out for a week, then we might have been able to see a clear thick black scum at the bottom of the container.  The mistake that Nightcrawler was making was expecting that the whole jar would jell-up, which it did not.

The other problem with working through the WMO meets WVO disaster is not all WMO will react negatively with all WVOs.  I am still not clear on why some WMO reacts with some WVO, but not all.  However, my observations suggest that the WMO has to be burned black and overused to react with WVO.  If, the WMO is changed frequently, then it may not react with WVO in a fuel blend. 

This would explain the random character of injector coking and fuel tank sludge events.  Although in each case WMO was present in the blend.  But not all WMOs would react with my WVO, which was a bit maddening to track down.
I have run various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline since Feb, 2007 in a 1983 Chevy G-20 van with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP. I have started the engine with no difficulty on an 80/20 (WVO/gas) blend down to 3F (-16c).  I now run 60/20/20 (WVO/diesel/gas)

Jhanananda

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Re: Blending WMO with WVO Incompatibility
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2013, 08:05:00 AM »
I have to amend this thread, because I recalled that I experimented with Canola-based Motor Oils starting in July of 2006, and I had problems with the project almost right away, and reported those problems later that year.  Here are some links to the reports:

This review was originally posted
Canola-based Motor Oils
Tue Nov 7, 2006 5:45 am
Jeffrey Brooks
Message #11842 of 16455

Canola-based Motor Oils
Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:12 am

Canola-based Motor Oils by Duane L. Johnson, Blaine Rhodes, and Robert
Allen, Reprinted from: Trends in new crops and new uses. 2002. J.
Janick and A. Whipkey (eds.). ASHS Press, Alexandria, VA.
I have run various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline since Feb, 2007 in a 1983 Chevy G-20 van with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP. I have started the engine with no difficulty on an 80/20 (WVO/gas) blend down to 3F (-16c).  I now run 60/20/20 (WVO/diesel/gas)

Jhanananda

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Re: Blending WMO with WVO Incompatibility
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2013, 10:31:30 AM »
Excalibur recently reported under the thread Smokey idle, and as he investigated the problem he discovered his IP was coated with "gunge."  His report got me thinking that his problem was essentially the same problem reported here.

A photo of part of Excalibur's injector pump, which I enhanced

This is a photo of the other half of Excalibur's injector pump, which I enhanced

This is an enlargement of part of the above photo of the other half of Excalibur's injector pump, which I enlarged and enhanced.

Most of the really nasty precipitates that I have encountered running WVO blends have been due to running them pack-to-back with WMO blends.  The two waste oil sources tend to be incompatible and result in large quantities of precipitates. It is reasonable to say that most, if not all, of the reports of precipitates from running WVO as fuel and producing: sludge, lacquer, tar, gunge, goop, polymerization, is very probably due to running WVO pack-to-back with WMO blends.  Here are some links that discuss the issue.
Scrubing out the fuel tank
Lacquer in WMO
Blending WMO with WVO Incompatibility
Smokey idle
Metals reacting with fats/WVO
injector pump blocked gunge

Since Excalibur mostly burned WVO in his engine for about 5 years before experimenting with WMO, then I believe it is reasonable to say that the cause of his gunged up injector pump is due to running WVO pack-to-back with WMO blends without having properly purged the fuel system before switching waste oil fuel types.

Here are some photographs of components in my fuel system that got sludged badly from running WVO pack-to-back with WMO blends without having properly purged the fuel system before switching waste oil fuel types.

This is a component in my fuel line that got sludged badly

This is the inside of my fuel tank that got sludged badly

This is the sludge that I removed from my 30-gallon fuel tank

This is a closeup of the sludge that I removed from my 30-gallon fuel tank

This is sludge under thee microscope
« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 04:10:40 PM by Jhanananda »
I have run various blends of waste oils and unleaded gasoline since Feb, 2007 in a 1983 Chevy G-20 van with a 6.2L diesel V-8 engine, with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP. I have started the engine with no difficulty on an 80/20 (WVO/gas) blend down to 3F (-16c).  I now run 60/20/20 (WVO/diesel/gas)

Class_8

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Re: Blending WMO with WVO Incompatibility
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2016, 07:31:54 PM »
At some point you mentioned working on an 'amber' WMO/WVO blend to get rid of '200 gallons of WMO you still had around' or somesuch. (I cannot remember which thread I read it in in a recent reading binge, and maybe even already posted on this elsewhere.)  I was just curious, have you abandoned that project or did you figure out a way or a theory of a way around the seeming incompatibility?

Or is it flat out unsafe even in small/tiny quantities like 1-5% to get rid of?  (which would seem to be indicated if simply switching from one to the other then back created problems)


Do you think flushing the lines with conventional 100% diesel between 'back to back' changeovers (WMO to diesel to WVO to diesel to WMO) would at least let you run both fuels without difficulty?  Or is there some residue that wont go away left by one or the other which  might react?